Yogi: I want to find out where thoughts are coming from so I can catch them. Is it important?
Sayadaw: We don’t have to know a thought quickly or in a certain way. So long as you build up awareness, awareness will catch it when the awareness is strong enough.
It is like you’re trying to do the work of awareness instead of just letting awareness do its own work.
Yogi: While I’m more mindful in daily life, but the mind is not as calm as on retreat. At home, the mind has to do so many tasks and think about things. Is it possible to have the same calm mind in daily life?
Sayadaw: It is partly skill and partly lifestyle.
I gave up many things to maintain the steady mind – frivolous talk, gossip and everything that wasn't necessary – and I did everything that was centered around how to be mindful all day long.
How much are we willing to adjust to accommodate our mindfulness?
The calm in daily life was even better than on retreat. On retreat, the mind only gained calm, but when I started gaining momentum at home, it was not just calm, but also joy and interest. The wisdom was coming and there was so much understanding, confidence and power in the mind.
When I decided to become a monk and went to the monastery, it became so calm that I thought it couldn’t be right. I spoke to my teacher and he said I got it all on the cheap – all the samadhi came without me having to do anything because in lay life, I worked hard to maintain that level of mind so the mind was really alive – it was learning and growing.
But in the monastery, I stopped having to work hard and wasn’t progressing everyday as I was at home.
Yogi: For a long time, I didn’t realize that wanting nothing could also be wanting something.
Sayadaw: Greed is so sneaky – it is everywhere. Dhamma is not everywhere; greed is everywhere.
In every way, whatever we do, we believe that if we do it this way, it’ll be fine. That’s the greed, liking it to be that way.
But it is okay; this is how we learn how greed works. Through these episodes, these are the lessons that, so, greed also does that.
This is a lesson worth learning.
Today, I went for a walk before the sitting. When I came back in, everybody was scurrying to the Dhamma hall and there was a lot of movement in the foyer.
I walked in mindfully by being inside myself. Although my attention was inside, I could be aware of everything that was happening.
It felt like when I was working in the market – people would be busy carrying their goods around, and I would be walking between them mindfully. There was awareness and wisdom and the mind was still. It was busy outside but it didn’t feel busy or hurried to me.
If we know the stillness of the mind and we are aware of ourselves, we can maintain the awareness and the stillness of the mind because we’re more with ourselves.
It is not that we don’t know what is outside – we know what is outside and what is inside.
Although I know what is going on outside, my attention is more inside myself.
Yogi: Why is shame so awful? What can I do to diminish it?
Sayadaw: Because it affects the self-image. The self-image we try so hard to build is shattered momentarily and we’re afraid other people will see the shattered self-image; and so it feels awful.
We try to keep ourselves looking good and when we feel that what we have done is not good then it feels horrible.
Yogi: What do you think about laughing about the embarrassing incident afterwards?
Sayadaw: That’s like redeeming the self-image. We try to feel good again like it’s not that bad.
Yogi: The first half of the meal, it was hard to be aware. It was partly greed and it was also shame – I ate quickly as I wanted less food to be seen on the plate.
I had to be quick – I saw others having very little food on their plates and I was embarrassed. I ate quickly out of shame and not so much because of greed.
Sayadaw: This is nature.
Yogi: At the next meal, I was still greedy and I took a lot. I said to myself: This is nature and nature is innocent. I felt easier.
What I was putting in – ‘maybe I know, maybe not’ and ‘nature is innocent’ – that’s conceptual and not a process, but it worked to settle the mind.
Sayadaw: That is right view. Because it is right view, therefore the mind is able to accept it and find it more acceptable to view it.
Yogi: My awakening experience was really bad – there was no feeling of ‘me’ or ‘I’.
It was confusing and awful – the fear exploded and the ‘I’ came back.
As the fear slowly subsides, I concentrated on the breathing.
The awful thing is ‘where was I?’ for that period of time.
Sayadaw: Actually, there is no ‘I’, but the thing that keeps the ‘I’ alive in our mind is the thought of me. When you woke up, the thought of me couldn’t form and that was what you experienced.
We have relied on ‘me’ our whole life and when it disappears, it is like ‘what do I rely on now?”.
It is a very strange and new experience.
It is just the thought of ‘me’ that was gone; when you think, the ‘me’ is back.
It is not so easy to lose the sense of self. The sense of self is always with us.
Yogi: With hearing, it is difficult for me to notice the hearing and not the bird singing because it happens so fast. And what is the difference between hearing and the concept?
Sayadaw: For hearing to happen you got to have the sound, the air medium to carry the sound to the ear, the attention and you have to have a good ear. When these things come together, then we hear something.
Hearing is what we call knowing sound – there is no need to separate hearing and the bird singing.
Understanding reality is not like knowing things separately – it is just realizing their different nature.
You don’t have to see this separately from that – they happen together, so why do you want to see them separately. You see their nature not because you see them separately.
Sometimes you don’t have to follow the precision of the words – you just have to trust the experience.
I explain the nature and using words it sounds like they are separate, but they happen together.
Yogi: There were lots of thoughts and stories – I didn’t want to have them but they came back and back. Then suddenly, when the mind realizes that I’ve already known the stories and they are useless, they stop.
I realize that depending on how I’m aware of what is going on, I can not be involved in the stories and I have more choice to decide where I want it to go.
The stories came again, but it no longer had the same power.
Sayadaw: Just be aware again and again. It doesn’t go to waste – it teaches us something.
Like when you’re watching and you see the thoughts come continuously, at first, you’re just watching and as the mind gathers the data, you realize that they are different stories but are of the same theme and it has this effect on this mind.
It starts to learn and see the suffering – one time you see it very clearly and then the mind has enough power and information to decide ‘okay, this thought I don’t need to keep thinking it and I’m not going to let it’. And then it stops.
At first, it’s just awareness and there’s not enough wisdom, but when the awareness gathers enough information, wisdom comes in.
It is said that every mind that has sati, panna will also be in it. That’s why we want to always cultivate the sati because it means the panna will always be present as well.
Panna can only learn when sati is present because it needs sati to be there in order to be present in the mind. That is why we practice sati so that the panna can come along.
Yogi: I was looking after an elderly person 24/7 who has virtually no memory. I was very aware when the mind tended to move to a place that was different from where it was. ‘Oh, this is boring, this shouldn’t and I could have.’ Whenever there is that movement, my body tenses up.
It was a lovely reminder of coming back again and again to not wanting things to be different – just very simply reminding myself not wanting it to be different. Then, it was actually very relaxing.
There is something about being reminded of not wanting things to be different, not needing things to be different.
Sayadaw: The mind has learnt to have that right attitude and it helps the mind again, and again and again.
When there is the right thought, it is so relaxing for the mind; whenever the wrong thought comes up, it can immediately see the change in the mind’s attention and so on.
Yogi: I could be mindful over a longer time period and I could see things arise and falling away, but got very tired during the evening. I went to bed and a huge aversion over the tiredness came up.
I was struggling and fighting against the tiredness and the aversion for the rest of the evening.
I was very unhappy and agitated and couldn’t step back from it.
Sayadaw: That you got so tired shows that you were using too much energy when you were mindful continuously seeing things coming and going. You were probably following that.
You found it interesting and thought that you should be seeing that and maybe even looking for that. And that would make you tired.
While you were practicing during the day and it was going well, still remember to check whether the mind is relaxed or whether tension is starting to come in. Check often, not after a long time.
Whether mindfulness is going well or not well, we should consistently be checking whether the mind is relaxed or getting tense because when it is going well, greed can come in and make it tense and when it is not going well, we may try too hard.
Yogi: I realize today that I don’t know how to forgive. I thought I have forgiven, but the stories came up again. I would like to know how forgiving works.
Sayadaw: There’s no need to try and forgive. Just see the process – there’s a trigger event and it brings up memories.
You thought that you’ve already forgiven, but just because those memories come up again doesn’t mean that you have not forgiven either. Not forgetting doesn’t mean that you have not forgiven.
There may be some residual anger when you think about it again because these memories come up afresh and the emotions might come again, but you see that as the cause and effect – this sort of event happens and the mind reacts in this way.
The main thing is not to think of this as you. It’s the mind and it has gone through a process – this happens and that happens because of this happening. The identification with it makes you feel worse.
When we see the mind, that’s great, but remember not to identify with it – when we identify with it, then more unwholesome stuff comes up. If you see it as a process, then it has nothing to do with you.
Yogi: Sayadaw often says to separate the aversion from the object. But I don’t see the aversion when something hurts in the body or when I see a yogi that I don’t like. It’s so hard to see the aversion apart from the object, to see the aversion and not what hurts.
When I don’t see the aversion separate from the object, it creates new aversion.
Sayadaw: You don’t have to focus on them separately.
If when you’re observing the pain, you can feel the aversion, you just know both – you don’t have to focus on them separately. If you can do that – know both – that’s fine.
Yogi: I had recurring strong thoughts about a dream and after a while I realized that they were only thoughts and they have the same value as hearing the birds or water. Is that right?
In the end, all objects we get have the same weight? Is this the practice?
Sayadaw: The reality is that all objects are the same because their only position is that they are being known. Because they are all objects, so the weight is the same.
But we only see that when there is that insight. When that wisdom is present, we see that all objects are the same.
When we don’t have that insight, then we think this is important and that is important.
Yogi: So, this is the right view?
Sayadaw: Yes.
Do more of the observing and less of the thinking.
Investigate doesn’t mean to think and investigate.
When you have a question like ’why is there fear’, you put aside the question after that and observe what is happening in the mind and body – just observe.
It is just like watching a movie; no more thinking.